EyeFlyDoc
I agree

obscure2k
agree.

EyeFlyDoc
yes

andymo99
agree.

DLrunner
I am personally affected by the 0.5 MQM for LUT

Marq
that too

EyeFlyDoc
I think that its madness

DLrunner
so how about perks and the 0.5 MQM as the biggest issues

EyeFlyDoc
it should be 1 minimum

bdschobel
I agree. Like AA.

obscure2k
let's try to avoid discussing SONG, if possisble

ATLpax
agree, 1 minimum MQM

EyeFlyDoc
exactly

paradocs
Why not like AA for qualification? Either $ or miles.

Marq
how about million miler qualification miles

EyeFlyDoc
that's the confusing thing

Rssrsvp
AA counts all miles for MM

bdschobel
Well, 1 min MQM would parallel AA pretty well.

andymo99
i don't think MM is the central issue here.

EyeFlyDoc
if Borden came from AA why not mimic

Rssrsvp
agreed

EyeFlyDoc
and not repeat the US mistake

obscure2k
are eyefly and RSS going to co-chair?

bdschobel
Biggest issueaffecting most people is upgrade % will drop tremendously.

EyeFlyDoc
It is like the took the worst of AA and US proposed

EyeFlyDoc
just RSS

DLrunner
so we could be explicit that these 1-2 issues are what affect most of us and we would like DL to reconsider them

EyeFlyDoc
right RSS?

Rssrsvp
OK

Rssrsvp
pardon the speed of my 2 finger typing

obscure2k
Go for it, RSS--

bdschobel
So one-two punch is 1 min MQM and upgrade %?

Rssrsvp
BTW, beware of DL lurkers!

bdschobel
No problemo.

EyeFlyDoc
I agree with Bruce

EyeFlyDoc
the question is will any roll back be too little, too late

Rssrsvp
Bruce, does that mean we are going for mexican food next lunch?

bdschobel
Focusing on two issues would be very helpful, I think. And those two affect the most people by far!!!

Marq
i would welcome dl lurjers

Marq
lurkers

bdschobel
OK.

obscure2k
Welcome, DL lurkers

DLrunner
Have we officially started ??

Rssrsvp
Issie #1 - one mile no matter what!

EyeFlyDoc
So when we get a few more should we agree on those issues?

EyeFlyDoc
I guess we agree

EyeFlyDoc
no objections

obscure2k
agree

Rssrsvp
we should not compare everything to AA

ATLpax
can we be more specific on the % upgrades?

Rssrsvp
big mistake

obscure2k
agree

Rssrsvp
look at CO &NW

EyeFlyDoc
yes

EyeFlyDoc
exactly

Rssrsvp
75k=top elite

Marq
NO

EyeFlyDoc
I would be happy with the prior qualifications

EyeFlyDoc
25, 50 and 100

obscure2k
agree with eyeflydoc

bareflanks
so would i

EyeFlyDoc
with same segments

Rssrsvp
everyone gets upgraded in a pecking order if I am not mistaken

Marq
rssrsvp, problem platinums have is delta made it too easy in 2001 to make platinum

EyeFlyDoc
segments are critical

andymo99
looks like bruce might be having technical difficulties again.

EyeFlyDoc
did he reload java?

Rssrsvp
they gave us the double mile promos

DLrunner
I would too..... i guess 1 MQM minimum, segment qualifications and perks at each level are what we should focus on as the main issues...

Marq
no, silver y or b has always had priority over platinum h, q or k

Rssrsvp
now we should be punished for flying?

bareflanks
if you had to do without seg qual...would that be ok

andymo99
We can't just take the best part of each program and ask DL to incorporate that.

Rssrsvp
you MUST have segments!

EyeFlyDoc
I don't agree with that

bareflanks
me too

DLrunner
now lets go back to the original agenda of billboard or other means to get those issues across

EyeFlyDoc
I think we must have segments

EyeFlyDoc
otherwise we disenfranchise many of our colleagues

Marq
i'm guilty, always make plat on segments, will probably only make plat every other year now

EyeFlyDoc
I can go either way

bareflanks
sorry, just a thought

EyeFlyDoc (Feb 3, 2003 9:14:16 PM)
but if you fly 100 segs a year you deserve PM

GG
I think mikey thinks segments are important

bdschobel
I got kicked off again. Had to reboot! First time tonight. Here;'s my address, by the way:

bdschobel
5 Oakwood Way

Rssrsvp
segments are a must to be fair to everyone

FL-Delta-Platinum
I agree... 100 segs is a COMMITMENT to an airline - loyalty

EyeFlyDoc
bruce did you reload java?

FL-Delta-Platinum
this is supposed to be a LOYALTY program

bdschobel
Yeah!

bareflanks
thanks bruce, i'll send the check

ATLpax
everyone thinks the way they qualify is important...LUT=1 MQM is imp for me

EyeFlyDoc
precisely

EyeFlyDoc
loyalty is loyalty

bdschobel
Did everyone get my earlier suggestion: 1MQM min and upgrade %?

FL-Delta-Platinum
100 segs provides a lot of revenue to dl

EyeFlyDoc
and you can measure it with miles flown or tush in seat

EyeFlyDoc
we all agree bruce

bdschobel
OK.

Marq
can make 100 segments for $5k, not a lot of revenue

Rssrsvp
can we live without upgrading LUT's if they give us 1 MQM?

bdschobel
Can we limit to 2 issues that affect almost everyone?

Marq
ues

andymo99
To be devil's advocate, someone who flies 100 LUT segments per year is not terribly valuble to the airline... why should they get rewarded?

obscure2k
yes

EyeFlyDoc
yes

DLrunner
yes RSS

bareflanks
yes

FL-Delta-Platinum
yes

jml1124
1 mqm minimim is very important. I even asked a res agent why should I even consider DL when all others give that - and more often cost less. She had no answer.

FL-Delta-Platinum
I'll buy K for upgrade

bdschobel
Same here.

EyeFlyDoc
but I don't think it costs them to put us in a seat especially if they make us pay for ULT upgrade

FL-Delta-Platinum
I've bought K for years - revenue

EyeFlyDoc
they could make money

EyeFlyDoc
I would still buy K for time of booking upgrade

DLrunner
Thats true... i agree with doc

bareflanks
me too

andymo99
But be realistic, we can't ask for DL to go to a system that is MORE generous than what they just took away from us.

Rssrsvp
eg. people that live on the shuttle won't get upgraded anyway but want 1 MQM for elite credit

EyeFlyDoc
not more generous

bareflanks
dl lurkers, are you reading this

EyeFlyDoc
if they are charging us

DLrunner
$50-75 for LUT upgrade at gate

ATLpax
ok, everyone agreed on 1 MQM

ATLpax
?

EyeFlyDoc
like they charge no medallions

jml1124
yes

FL-Delta-Platinum
yes

bdschobel
Yes.

bareflanks
me too

EyeFlyDoc
RSS what's next?

Rssrsvp
folks, let's deal with segments first. yes or no?

bajamex
yes

FL-Delta-Platinum
yes

EyeFlyDoc
yes

bareflanks
ok, does not affect me

EyeFlyDoc
better to ask if objection I think

bdschobel
I'd drop that as an issue, personally. Doesn't affect enough folks. Sorry to those who ARE affected.

DLrunner
does not affect me

BigD
It affects me a great deal

ATLpax
are there any other key points? then maybe we can vote on them

FL-Delta-Platinum
I can make it w/o, but support travellers who do

EyeFlyDoc
I think that it is important overall

Marq
it affects me but i understand reasoning

bdschobel
So do I, but we can't dilute our message too much.

EyeFlyDoc
status is good for DL

EyeFlyDoc
the more the merrier

EyeFlyDoc
for them

bareflanks
no segment; no u/g on ult; 1-1 mqm

EyeFlyDoc
if there is value they would want everyone to be a medallion

ATLpax
how about the 800 to 500?

EyeFlyDoc
keeps us on planes

FL-Delta-Platinum
segments keeps me from looking at SW on short flights

Marq
big

bdschobel
Yes. Broader, though: upgrade % drops precipitously.

FL-Delta-Platinum
800 is BIG

Marq
plat only upgrade 20% of flights

EyeFlyDoc
true

bdschobel
Right.

EyeFlyDoc
800 is big

obscure2k
am really steamed about the 800 to 500.

Rssrsvp
so far segments look like a yes based on the count #2 - MQM's we we settle for less than 1 MQM on any fare?

Marq
30% if Y...all other airlines let any upgrade full y fares

FL-Delta-Platinum
it triples my segment MSU needs

bdschobel
It's not the number that matters; it's the overal upgrade %.

Marq
bd i agree

DLrunner
no for less than 1 MQM for all fares

Marq
plat upgrades same as silver

Marq
don't like

EyeFlyDoc
RSS it was no for less than 1

FL-Delta-Platinum (Feb 3, 2003 9:20:37 PM)
why get PM is sm is same

Marq
bd agree

EyeFlyDoc
that was the most insane thing

Marq
agree

EyeFlyDoc
why bother

Marq
yes

EyeFlyDoc
yup

Rssrsvp
time out!

obscure2k
no motivation to reach plat

Marq
especially since amex plat have free access to crown room now

BigD
I won't make gold with 150 segs anyway

EyeFlyDoc
what do we have so far?

Marq
big, of course you will

FL-Delta-Platinum
rationing of SMU is issue #1

andymo99
Hey, Rss said timeout. Uh oh, we lost bruce again.

EyeFlyDoc
yes

dbk10
Shall we get the real party started?!?!?!?! April 25th is the shareholders meeting, we need to accomplish something before that.

Marq
rssr yes

bareflanks
yes rssp'

FL-Delta-Platinum
YES

obscure2k
definiely

bajamex
yes

Rssrsvp
do not settle for less or you are fools!

cwpfly
agree

obscure2k
agree

dbk10
now on the media committe we have been talking mainly about trying to get press kits out to whomever we can

bareflanks
can i ask about the buttons?

Jet2K
and here I think that I will settle for 8 800-milers

EyeFlyDoc
so we are at 1 = 1, yes to segs and restore 800?

Marq
yes

FL-Delta-Platinum
Unlimited MSU #1; 800 Miles #2

GG
Buttons: what numbers are we talking about?

Rssrsvp
why settle for less when u are entitled to more

EyeFlyDoc
8 GM and 4 FO

Marq
hey, we can't have everything

bareflanks
we could sell them for a couple of buck to offset the cost of the billboard

GG
We can provide up to 200 as a contribution to the cause but will need to know slogans and some central point to ship them to

obscure2k
keep pm benefits as they were

Rssrsvp
you pay for the upgradeable fares upfront

EyeFlyDoc
in other words restore

Marq
hard enough to upgrade these days as pm

obscure2k
"restore" Right.

bareflanks
gg....thought we finalized that on last discussion

Rssrsvp
EFD yes

EyeFlyDoc
OK... anything else we need to settle on what we want?

EyeFlyDoc
or should we move to what we will do?

bareflanks
sorry gg, i'm off topic

Rssrsvp
800 or 500 on MSU?

BigD
can you summerize

EyeFlyDoc
800 for sure

EyeFlyDoc
since I type faster I'll do that

obscure2k
800

Marq
fl yes

EyeFlyDoc
minimum of 1 MQM per mile flown

obscure2k
could live with that

bareflanks
yel dl pm

BigD
yes

EyeFlyDoc
restore qualification levels

Rssrsvp
GM's & FO's get screwed at 500

EyeFlyDoc
800 instead of 500

BigD
yes

bdschobel
second reboot!

bareflanks
welcome back

EyeFlyDoc
you need a new computer

paradocs
800 is my vote

bdschobel
Yes!!!

EyeFlyDoc
one that the kids don't use ;-)

FL-Delta-Platinum
if we have to give, this may be the place

I LOVE EWR
If you need meeting space let me know I MIGHT be able to work something out

FL-Delta-Platinum
however, they need to be valued at 500m

bareflanks
we need to 'give' on something

GG
Sorry, I can't hang around tonight, but we'll be home on Wednesday

FL-Delta-Platinum
you need to get more -not the same number

bdschobel
The number is irrelevant. The upgrade % is all that counts.

EyeFlyDoc
the problem with 500 is that they won't get you anywhere

obscure2k
exactly

Marq
bd agree

Rssrsvp
exactly

bareflanks
yes bruce

FL-Delta-Platinum
yed bd, wrong semantics

bdschobel
They could go to 100 if they gave me infinite again!

Marq
100% pm, 50% gm, 25% sm

DLrunner
we are "giving" on the LUT non-upgradeable part....

bareflanks
'ok dlrun

Rssrsvp
we need 8 for GM's & 4 for FO's @ 800 miles each if they expect us to pay for upgradeables

obscure2k
500 is ridiculous. Lax/Slc is just over 500 miles, so it would take 2

FL-Delta-Platinum
what about the enhancement of upgrading companion?

Rssrsvp
BS

EyeFlyDoc
but for GM and FO getting upgraded when you have no upgrades is not good

DLrunner
dont care about that

obscure2k
agree, it's BS

DLrunner
looks like we have the top 2-3... .Lets move on

EyeFlyDoc
or maybe 12 for GM and 8 for FO if they stay with 5

FL-Delta-Platinum
DL promotes it as sliced bread

bdschobel
That's enough!

Rssrsvp
EFD, it's one & the same

bdschobel
Issues, that is!

ATLpax
partner upgrades is a bogus benefit

EyeFlyDoc
true

EyeFlyDoc
;-)

bareflanks
agree

EyeFlyDoc
I was hoping they would do the math

bareflanks
i use miles for my wife

Rssrsvp
don't forget the enhancement we lost in the NAMU

bdschobel
Me, too. (My wife, not yours!)

Rssrsvp
it replaced the SWU

EyeFlyDoc
that is anohter issue

EyeFlyDoc
what do we do about NAMUs?

bareflanks
never met her!

Rssrsvp
because we requested it

Jet2K
enhanced out of NAMU :)

EyeFlyDoc
how about NAMU with a deductable?

bdschobel
I never used my namus, anyway. I don;t care.

obscure2k
sacrifice the Namu..if we get the other stuff

EyeFlyDoc
I would agree

BigD
agree

EyeFlyDoc
but that would leave them non-competitive

FL-Delta-Platinum
never use the namu

bareflanks
agree 02k

Rssrsvp
yes but ask for it & give it up later

EyeFlyDoc
in some respects

EyeFlyDoc
I guess

ConcordeBoy
So... what's goin' on, what's happening, what's the primary issue of the chat h'yere today?

Rssrsvp
hi mikey

EyeFlyDoc
Hi Mikey

DLrunner
yep..... I used the NAMU only to hold my upgrade before th 72 hour window

bdschobel
Don't ask for anything you don't really want. Not the time for that.

EyeFlyDoc
we are exploring what we want

Rssrsvp
list of demands

bdschobel
Short list!

mikey1003
i all sorry im late was being a grandfather...what is going on so far

EyeFlyDoc
or request to be polite

ConcordeBoy
and what if the demands arent met... then what?

EyeFlyDoc
I agree with Bruce

EyeFlyDoc
make it short

EyeFlyDoc
then we strike

DLrunner
stop flying DL

bdschobel
No, then we really leavem if we can.

ConcordeBoy
wait... havent most everyone already done that?

mikey1003
bruce, i agree...concise to the point

EyeFlyDoc
pretty much

bareflanks
switch to their nemisis AA

Rssrsvp
EFD, please summarize what we have agreed upon so far

bdschobel
No. I'm stuck with DL for too much flying.

ConcordeBoy
feel ya Bdschobel

GoCanes
any legal questions yet?

EyeFlyDoc
I posted that I just hapilly have AA $2200 that would have been DLs

sportsbe
Does anyone know the parameters of the 92 Ways 2 Earn promo?

EyeFlyDoc
nope

Rssrsvp
out of this topic please

DLrunner
then everyone buy ONE share of DL and make them mail those shareholder reports to a lot of people :-)

andymo99
sportsbe, email me offline

mikey1003
did we discuss billboards

bdschobel
I don't want to bankrupt them, just get my perks back!

andymo99
[email protected]

obscure2k
can we move on to the shareholders meeting

ATLpax
stock went below 9 today, also off topic sorry

EyeFlyDoc
O2K will you be there?

bdschobel
What about other airlines?

Rssrsvp
eye fly please list what we have so far

obscure2k
sure considering it

EyeFlyDoc
OK

ConcordeBoy
that, and they dropped another luggage bomb on us ATLpax

EyeFlyDoc
we agree that 1 mile flown = 1 MQM minimum

Rssrsvp
doesn't affct many of us

EyeFlyDoc
we agree that we want qualification levels retained

bdschobel
Occasionally, all of us.

EyeFlyDoc
including segements

mikey1003
efd......segments

dbk10
but do you want 1 mile flown = 1 MQM or stick with the 500 point minimum?

Rssrsvp
please let eyefly finish before posting

jml1124
1=1

EyeFlyDoc
1 minimum for all fares

Marq
500 min

bareflanks
yes ef

EyeFlyDoc
but more for Y?fif they want

EyeFlyDoc
Y and F

dbk10
as a shuttle flyer, this segment thing is killing me

ConcordeBoy
so pray tell.... how are we going to make these demands [hopefully painfully] apparent to DL? Billboard is one... but what else?

EyeFlyDoc
and we also want 800 mile seg upgrades

Rssrsvp
yes!

EyeFlyDoc
Did I miss anything?

DLrunner
Anyone from the press here ?

bdschobel
Or reasonable number of 500-MSUs.

Marq
it sounds like we want a better program than before...not very realistic

Rssrsvp
stay with 800 for now

ConcordeBoy
as in "unlimited" Bruce?

mikey1003
ozstamps sent me the list of over 100 travrel editors

andymo99
Marq, that is what I was saying earlier. Not reasonable.

bdschobel
That would be best!

mikey1003
emailand addresses

dbk10
Do we have a goal of going right to the 800 mile seg upgrades stuff, or should we start off about the program in general and not alienate those flyers that aren't platinum, etc...?

obscure2k
great ?

mikey1003
dbk??

dbk10
yeah

Marq
some sm are going to really like the new program

EyeFlyDoc
I think we need to address all levels needs

EyeFlyDoc
sm like?

EyeFlyDoc
what's to like?

Marq
in my markets, silver never can upgrade today

bdschobel
Right. Upgrade % does the job, I think.

DLrunner
since we are 30 minutes in to the chat already.... can we move on to the channel to communicate this message... or should we wait for that ?

bdschobel
Compare old and new.

EyeFlyDoc
I agree with Bruce

EyeFlyDoc
as long as the % is retained

mikey1003
but we need to not use wour elite...that is airline marketingspeek

EyeFlyDoc
we're fine

obscure2k
agree with bruce

mikey1003
speak

EyeFlyDoc
and they can do whatever they want

Rssrsvp
will we settle for 1/2 MQM under any circumstances?

EyeFlyDoc
The billboard folks were out until today and promised to fax a proposal

EyeFlyDoc
no to 1.2

obscure2k
no

bdschobel
no

DLrunner
1/2 MQM will really hurt me... NO

EyeFlyDoc
makes no sense

BigD
no

GoCanes
are you putting Delta logo on the billboard?

bdschobel
better not.

EyeFlyDoc
Can we?

jml1124
no 1/2 mqm - I refuse to pay a k fare on a rj

EyeFlyDoc
we can put whatever we want

Marq
agree

EyeFlyDoc
cost is the same for simple or complex

Rssrsvp
what if it was like AA's 1/2 point or 1 elite mile?

EyeFlyDoc
but it has to be compelling

ATLpax
i don't know if we can use their logo

bdschobel
Let's be careful about getting sued, though.

EyeFlyDoc
AA's model of qualification works

mikey1003
no way in world we can pay more for tkts

dbk10
I think we need to portray to the media a story about business travelers not willing to go along with massive program changes. Maybe not necessarily go to Delta or the press with a list of demands. But really speak out to be heard and play the bad publicity game forcing the airlines in general to do stuff to make business/frequent travelers happy

GoCanes
yeah, do not violate copyright laws

dbk10
we may be able to gain support from other airline frequent fliers that way

EyeFlyDoc
but then DL has more stratification re fares

dbk10
and make this thing a flyers vs. the airlines thing

obscure2k
agree with dbk10

EyeFlyDoc
agree with dbk

dbk10
instead of just DL flyers vs. DL

bdschobel
Trademark infringement. Ned to explore reasonable use.

EyeFlyDoc
agree

Rssrsvp
guys Randy is in the Buzz and mikey is inviting him over

EyeFlyDoc
with bruce and dbk

GoCanes
also, must be careful for libel

GoCanes
no matter what you do, i guarantee a lawsuit

EyeFlyDoc
you think

GoCanes
just the way the legal world works

obscure2k
Dl canafford more expensive lawyers

EyeFlyDoc
that would be a pr DISASTER

bajamex
agree

GoCanes
they have lawyers who this is what they do

dbk10
I think we would have a better shot of getting a frequent flyers are fighting back story than we would of getting the press to single out DL specifically

Rssrsvp
great press for us. David vs. Goliath

EyeFlyDoc
DK would be nuts

FL-Delta-Platinum
DL will not sue its customers

bdschobel
Not true. They don't want to attract attention or make us into martyrs. But we can't go too far!

GoCanes
and they have the funds for it

EyeFlyDoc
that's also true

EyeFlyDoc
they do

FL-Delta-Platinum
you can use the logo as long as it has TM & used properly

ATLpax
yes, united pax are angry too

Marq
just take our miles

Rssrsvp
US didn't sue it's angry elites

EyeFlyDoc
but it would generate enough publicty to make use look like the injured

EyeFlyDoc
it would be perfect

EyeFlyDoc
as if they did

dbk10
I think we should use that nice Song Air Logo that someone posted with the baggage cart!

EyeFlyDoc
but they won't

DLrunner
lets not use the logo....

EyeFlyDoc
I agree

bdschobel
Agree.

ATLpax
i agree

Rssrsvp
don't use any logos!

EyeFlyDoc
no point in looking for trouble

bdschobel
Right.

dbk10
I was kidding

obscure2k
no logos

EyeFlyDoc
My thought is the billboard at the stockholders meeting

DLrunner
ok Bruce.... what is the latest situation of the saveskymiles fund?

FL-Delta-Platinum
use a pix of Leo... put a person on trial for his decisions

bdschobel
$775.

EyeFlyDoc
and then around the US as inexpensively as possible

mikey1003
remember dl is only major who has made this move...they are hanging...if we get press on our side we have a chance...Spoke to Chris McGinnis Atl Business Courier...article on us this week

bdschobel
Including yours.

DLrunner
thanks... and the pledges?

Rssrsvp
we need to start the billboard asap

EyeFlyDoc
excellent Mikey

dbk10
1.) let's not leave this chat without setting a deadline for something (let it be a written press release or something)

bdschobel
Not exactly sure, roughly $3000.

Rssrsvp
go mikey

EyeFlyDoc
do we want to start at the stock holders meeting

Rssrsvp
earlier

FL-Delta-Platinum
do we have a picket date for ATL

DLrunner
isn't that in April? too late

EyeFlyDoc
it would be too costly to do ATL as a standalone

bdschobel
Has to be earlier.

Rssrsvp
LGA, BOS, ATL

dbk10
I think we want to start before stockholders meeting

dbk10
we want them to talk about it in the meeting

bdschobel
Yes.

Rssrsvp
CVG

EyeFlyDoc
LGA, BOS I think is doable

ATLpax
let's list and prioritize actions

obscure2k
exactly

mikey1003
should be earlier and culminate at stockholder meet

EyeFlyDoc
good idea

bdschobel
Mikey, YES!

dbk10
exactly Mikey

FL-Delta-Platinum
WE should all converge on ATL on a Monday before our business week starts

EyeFlyDoc
agreed

EyeFlyDoc
and do what?

bdschobel
Meet with local press.

obscure2k
raise hell at stockholders meeting

mikey1003
i invited randy over...he is in buzz chat and still has not come over

EyeFlyDoc
I think many of us did converge on ATL

ATLpax
hand out flyers to other pax

EyeFlyDoc
can you blame him?

bdschobel
I was there today. No converging, though! :)

EyeFlyDoc
he has other issues to consider

Marq
me too

dbk10
how serious is this button thing?

mikey1003
we need www.saveskymiles.com or another site

EyeFlyDoc
I know ATL better than where I live

Marq
likes idea of buttons

mikey1003
that is his site

dbk10
does anyone have a cost estimate for buttons?

GoCanes
I think we need to make this a skymiles issue and not an elite issue

GoCanes
every skymiles member has the opportunity to become elite

EyeFlyDoc
It is a DL issue

bdschobel
We have identified broad issues already.

EyeFlyDoc
and a business issue

mikey1003
gocane...correct

EyeFlyDoc
so how do we interface buttons with the board

obscure2k
gg offered to donate 200 buttons. why not use that as a trial balloon to see what response we get

dbk10
also, what are the costs with distribution of buttons? can we set it up that everyone would purchase their own buttons directly from the distributor?

EyeFlyDoc
how do we distribute?

EyeFlyDoc
and what will the buttons do?

mikey1003
hand out on flights

bdschobel
Before too long, we really need a meeting.

dbk10
they will start advertising

obscure2k
we wear on flights

ATLpax
i agree, we do need a meeting

I LOVE EWR
i MIGHT be able to help out with the meetings

bareflanks
EF..it a visual thing to create conversation

EyeFlyDoc
in truth we need publicity

bdschobel
Holiday qeekend in 2 weeks?

bdschobel
Weekend!

ATLpax
difficult to move these ideas forward here

EyeFlyDoc
glare of the public spotlight

EyeFlyDoc
yes

bareflanks
yes

EyeFlyDoc
not sure buttons would help

EyeFlyDoc
more of a side issue

andymo99
we can meet in a CRC!

EyeFlyDoc
we need the press

bdschobel
If we get press coverage, we will win. Without it, we'll just bang our heads against the wall.

ipoinvestor
is it possible to set up a conference call on this matter for all to voice their opinions on this matter?

EyeFlyDoc
and the best way to get it is to mildly embarass DL

EyeFlyDoc
absolutely bruce

bdschobel
Mildly, is right.

EyeFlyDoc
buttons won't do much

dbk10
well, maybe the idea of buttons isn't bad b/c if we do that before the press thing, then we have part of the story right there. I think we are going to somehow do SOMETHING before the press will be interested

ATLpax
yes, conf call, then meeting

bdschobel
We have to keep the spirit of actually liking Delta and wanting to stay with them!

EyeFlyDoc
I think the 2 things we need to focus on is how to get publicity

obscure2k
agree

BigD
the press will want something visual

mikey1003
If we can break the 100 plus names I got from ozstamps...get a concise letter or email about us meeting, getting billboards, buttons....reasons and cure..then we can mail/email them to the press asap

Flight Mechanic
The cockroaches worked for the US Air Flyers

EyeFlyDoc
and how to get attention

bdschobel
If we come across as enemies, they don't want us on their planes, anyway!

EyeFlyDoc
in reverse order

EyeFlyDoc
yes

bareflanks
fm been there

dbk10
and maybe we can send buttons to the press???

EyeFlyDoc
we need to appear as frustrated customers

DLrunner
Bruce.. the last 1-2 months, I have seriously reconsidered the fact that I used to like DL

bdschobel
Right.

EyeFlyDoc
exactly what we are

obscure2k
Delta: Why did you break my heart? I loveyou.

mikey1003
dbk as part of a press kit

bdschobel
Basically, yes.

I LOVE EWR
sorry bout that

andymo99
:)O2K

EyeFlyDoc
I think we need something a little less racy and more gener neutral ;-)

dbk10
yea, as part of the kit

Rssrsvp
"DL Road Warriors want a fair return on their investment

Jet2K
I like andymo's idea of meeting at a CRC

bdschobel
dbk, yes.

EyeFlyDoc
that works

Jet2K
perhaps in ATL?

bdschobel
I'll be there.

bareflanks
i thought the button message as DL how could u...with the save skymiles www address

obscure2k
CRC is perfect

Jet2K
and invite the press

mikey1003
atl is probably best its central

EyeFlyDoc
I will be in ATL several times in the next few weeks

Marq
they can't get in

Rssrsvp
true

Jet2K
we will set up a line

bdschobel
And DL is important there.

EyeFlyDoc
busy time but I would try to break away for a meeting

obscure2k
they can if they are a guest

Jet2K
outside of the CRC and escort press in as our guess

Jet2K
guests

Marq
only with ticket

dbk10
Bareflanks, I think we'd catch more flies with honey than with vinegar

bdschobel
Ticket no problem.

bdschobel
Refundable!

Flight Mechanic
Reserve a conferance room, they get a security pass

dbk10
we don't want delta to think that they've already lost our business

Jet2K
how about renting a conf room at the CRC

EyeFlyDoc
I think that we have most of this down

bdschobel
Oh, yeah!

Marq
bd, glad to see i'm not the only one that thought of that

EyeFlyDoc
we need to work on how to coordinate with the press

FL-Delta-Platinum
need a date...

EyeFlyDoc
date for meeting

bdschobel
efd, yes.

mikey1003
I posted dbk's and atlpax press ideas on ft

bdschobel
Holiday weekend?

Jet2K
bruce, I sent the list from Oz to you and mikey

obscure2k
need 14 day minimum with sat nt stay

DLrunner
Saturday Feb 15?

EyeFlyDoc
excellent

bdschobel
Yes.

andymo99
expensive.

DLrunner
fly aittran :-)

bdschobel
Not with Saturday night stay.

DLrunner
Airtran

bdschobel
Or award ticket. Maybe even e-fare.

bajamex
any try air tran

andymo99
from BOS it is, that weekend. all DL flights in and out expensive.

Rssrsvp
2/15 is Valentine day's weekend some of us have plans

EyeFlyDoc
Yeah

EyeFlyDoc
trye

andymo99
yeah, FL is the answer.

EyeFlyDoc
true

obscure2k
prez day wknd.

FL-Delta-Platinum
why not monday morning 2/17 early

mikey1003
Im at a meeting in Tampa that weekeend

bdschobel
If we meet on Sunday, I can drive down with a carload.

bdschobel
I could to save money for a group.

mikey1003
you can fill me in on what happens

BigD
I'll be going through ATL Friday and Sunday

bdschobel
Sunday works well.

Rssrsvp
we can accomplish a great deal on the phone

bdschobel
Yes.

EyeFlyDoc
is there some way we could meet in a virtual chat room or a large conference call

obscure2k
DL runner, good idea

EyeFlyDoc
either that or though committees

bdschobel
Rss and I are on the phone all day!

EyeFlyDoc
that meet on phone

bdschobel
I don't mean with each other.

EyeFlyDoc
hehehe

EyeFlyDoc
How about this

EyeFlyDoc
we set up a structure

EyeFlyDoc
a central committee

MileageAddict
Delta is ready when you are! :)

EyeFlyDoc
and several subsidiary comittees

Rssrsvp
I can only conference 2 lines, but if everyone did the same we could all connect that way

MileageAddict
Delta, We get you there (so shut up and dont ask for anything else)

EyeFlyDoc
the subsidiarys can conference call or IM or email

obscure2k
how many are in NY area

bdschobel
E-mail beats chats, I think. More organized.

EyeFlyDoc
and the report to the central comittee and they post

EyeFlyDoc
updates

EyeFlyDoc
I agree

dbk10
NY (well, on weekends)

bdschobel
I'm in NY day-time.

EyeFlyDoc
I am in NY but not much in the next few weeks

Rssrsvp
I'm in NY

BigD
NE FLA

obscure2k
bruce, rss, eyefly, are all NY

EyeFlyDoc
I will discuss with the mobile bbs guys tomorrow and post as soon as I have a firm price

DLrunner
RIC.... The central meeting place :-)

bareflanks
got to go...sorry...will read the recap tomorrow

EyeFlyDoc
night

bdschobel
If we want to be noticed by Delta and the press, ATL is a must.

mikey1003
i have the start of a decent email list....I sent you the press info this afternoon...I am surte that most of you know and trust others to add...people who do not want to be outed can be blind copied

EyeFlyDoc
yes

Jet2K
agree with Bruce

obscure2k
agree with bruce

mikey1003
bruce, I agree

EyeFlyDoc
but the question is... if we are in ATL what can we do that won't really piss DL off?

Rssrsvp
how's this for an angle, we all redeem miles & fly to ATL

EyeFlyDoc
that's easy

obscure2k
NICE!

MHS
I have not been here all night...

MHS
just got in from a trip

bdschobel
First of all, we ask Delta to meet with us. That's essential!!!

EyeFlyDoc
can we upgrade with award insULT fares?

Rssrsvp
MHS, welcome

MHS
I think that the press is the answer

dbk10
or how 'bout this, we all make a press story about how we wanted to use miles to meet in Atlanta, but it's too hard to redeem our miles so we couldn't make it to ATL :)

bdschobel
Hard to get pissed if you were invoted but refused to attend.

EyeFlyDoc
I agree

bdschobel
invited.

mikey1003
dbk...love it

EyeFlyDoc
interesting point

DLrunner
what ever happened to that advisory panel? was that a joke?

EyeFlyDoc
what if we ask DL for a meeting

Marq
still on panel

EyeFlyDoc
and invite the press?

bdschobel
Yes!!!

Jet2K
great idea!

Rssrsvp
great

EyeFlyDoc
do it in ATL

dbk10
DLrunner, interesting concept

mikey1003
is www.saveskymiles an option?

bdschobel
Has to be ATL. NY press won't care.

ATLpax
excellent.

dbk10
I don't know if they will agree to the press though

EyeFlyDoc
need it if we are using the BBS

mikey1003
if not we need another site to refer press to

bdschobel
I'd meet them without press.

Rssrsvp
we acn get it revide & updated

dbk10
we would have to alert the press after we had written confirmation of a meeting

mikey1003
billboards to

mikey1003
buttons to

EyeFlyDoc
they can meet with the press

EyeFlyDoc
if they don't say yes

EyeFlyDoc
or without if they do

EyeFlyDoc
Why not post a message to DL

EyeFlyDoc
on FT

bdschobel
EFD. You got it!

EyeFlyDoc
that as representatives of DL flyers

EyeFlyDoc
we demand a meeting

EyeFlyDoc
in ATL

Jet2K
does Delta actualy lurk on FT?

bdschobel
No. Be nice. Request.

EyeFlyDoc
and if they won't meet with us

FL-Delta-Platinum
Bruce or EFD should send fax letter to Leo to meet with his best customers - I know the CEO of my company would meed with his upper 3%...

EyeFlyDoc
we take it to the press

Rssrsvp
eyefly call me tomorrow

EyeFlyDoc
will do

EyeFlyDoc
you know

bdschobel
DL first, then press. See if they'll give a little without publicity.

mikey1003
im sure dl is lurking

Rssrsvp
agreed

EyeFlyDoc
Bruce how much pledged?

bdschobel
That's OK. I've got nothing to hide.

DLrunner
you'll get a "Thats all the discussion we will have on this topic" reply from one of the DL lurkers

bdschobel
Roughly $3000. Not exact.

mikey1003
let press know our frustrations

EyeFlyDoc
if they are looking for a way out this is it

EyeFlyDoc
they meet with their best customers

EyeFlyDoc
and come up with a compromise

Rssrsvp
post a thread on FT Community asking for donations

EyeFlyDoc
we have enough to embarass them

EyeFlyDoc
and they know it

obscure2k
would they acknowledge that they have lost revenue from top tier?

bdschobel
First approach DL. Don't embarrass them unnecessarily. See what we can get by being nice, then be not so nice, if necessary.

EyeFlyDoc
and the point is we dont want to

EyeFlyDoc
and neither do they

EyeFlyDoc
this is a perfect solution

EyeFlyDoc
set up a dialog

DLrunner
cross reference CO/NW boards.... if DL gets away with this, they could be next

Rssrsvp
nice guys finisf last

EyeFlyDoc
I've never been accused of being nice

EyeFlyDoc
surgical

EyeFlyDoc
cynical

bdschobel
Very tough guys can appear to be nice for a while.

EyeFlyDoc
sceming

obscure2k
witty

EyeFlyDoc
obnoxious

andymo99
erudite.

mikey1003
remember...chris woodyard usatoday wrote sympathetic article on us last week or 2 weeks ago...james pilcher did the same in cincy...someone sayid wsj had one

EyeFlyDoc
and even polite and genteel by my seat mate the other day

EyeFlyDoc
she had a few too many

mikey1003
we need to keep up pressure

DLrunner
we did try to talk to them through the posts on FT.... They did not listen to even ONE point

Rssrsvp
back to business , we all know how full of ourselves we can be :)

EyeFlyDoc
but now they either face us or the press

EyeFlyDoc
meet the press

bdschobel
Consultant didn't. Real Delta might.

EyeFlyDoc
true RSS, I am full of something ;-)

FL-Delta-Platinum
it needs to be a business meeting and have the tone of a business meeting

Rssrsvp
:)

EyeFlyDoc
I agree with bruce

obscure2k
Hi, Sean

FL-Delta-Platinum
a chat does not have that and won't have the openness

mikey1003
that is why we go ahead and do whatever we are going to do and let press know

EyeFlyDoc
I think that aliens have taken over virgina ave

Rssrsvp
hi Sean

bdschobel
Hi, Sean!

andymo99
Hi, Sean!

EyeFlyDoc
I think giving them a chance makes sense

bdschobel
We have nothing to lose.

B747-437B
dont mind me - im just the mole here to report back to the authorities about your plans :)

EyeFlyDoc
and avoiding embarasment is a strong motivator

bdschobel
No problem!

bdschobel
This isn't a secret.

obscure2k
We love Delta, Sean

EyeFlyDoc
who thinks that DL doesn't want to change things

dbk10
then please tell them we'd like to meet with them

Rssrsvp
many of us have the number to exec offices at DL, how about a call?

B747-437B
tell that to the judge

mikey1003
if we give them a chance they will take it as an ultimatum and their backs will be to the wall...we need to move forward

EyeFlyDoc
at this point I imagine that they are looking for some excuse

EyeFlyDoc
to change without loosing face

Jet2K
let us give them that excuse

obscure2k
Time for dinner

bdschobel
I hope so. Look at standby fees.

EyeFlyDoc
I agree with Bruce that they are working on changes now

andymo99
I agree with O2K

mikey1003
eyefly i am being bitter but they have nor even answered our letters , emails or calls so far

EyeFlyDoc
make them look like they are receptive to interaction with their customers

Marq
the new free change of flights for gm and pm is a great NEW benefit

FL-Delta-Platinum
the answers from SMS are getting shorter - thanks for writing

bdschobel
Someone higher up might meet with a group.

EyeFlyDoc
I think that was a natural planned defense

MileageAddict
Mikey, they are too busy getting the Song planes ready ;)

Marq
fl, that has always been my experience

EyeFlyDoc
they anticipaed that we wouldn't be happy

EyeFlyDoc
and their reponse was planned and canned

EyeFlyDoc
I suspect that they are interested in dialog

andymo99
are we wrapping up?

mikey1003
is there anyone here that thinks that they can get us a reasonable appointment with someone from delta?

dbk10
by meeting with them, we give Delta the opportunity to go to the press and say that they are receptive to their ff's. However, in that effort, they will also want to get the viewpoint of the FFs, in which case it may give us an easier opportunity to be heard

EyeFlyDoc
where did O2K go?

FL-Delta-Platinum
who's writing letter to invite DL management?

andymo99
she went to make dinner for the family

bdschobel
The May 2003 and 2004 dates are there to give them time to back-pedal. They knew what they were doing. They want to see what we care about most. Let's tell them.

EyeFlyDoc
Ah

EyeFlyDoc
I agree

ATLpax
do we propose that all of us go?

bdschobel
Sean, what do you think?

EyeFlyDoc
RSS and Bruce a call tomorrow

bdschobel
Sure.

mikey1003
bruce, Havent we told them already? Isnt it falling on deaf ears

dbk10
What kind of deadline would we want to meet with them? When do we want this done by?

EyeFlyDoc
to see what we can set up and then report back to the group on Ft

bdschobel
They've heard too much from too many. We havwe to organize and focus.

EyeFlyDoc
meanwhile we proceed with billboard planning just in case

EyeFlyDoc
agree

EyeFlyDoc
I think it has a chance

B747-437B
what exactly do you guys want from Delta?

mikey1003
again...who can get us an appointment?

Rssrsvp
efd & bruce ok

EyeFlyDoc
mikey we can try

bdschobel
A business-like approach for specific rollbacks has a chance, I think. Sean?

avek00
good question Sean

EyeFlyDoc
it's worth a shot

Rssrsvp
Sewan, a reasonable return on our investment

B747-437B
give specifics

avek00
return on investment?

EyeFlyDoc
we did Sean

avek00
SkyMiles are not an investment

Rssrsvp
sorry about thre typing

DLrunner
1mile = 1 MQM minimum

mikey1003
no i am asking...is there someone who CAN get us in...i am not bitching here

EyeFlyDoc
it is on the transcript

B747-437B
"unlimited upgrades from all fares"? :)

bdschobel
We agreed on two, I think, earlier (I was cut off for a while).

B747-437B
let me rephrase

EyeFlyDoc
skymiles are an investment

DLrunner
Sean.... it is in the transcript

Jet2K
One mile flown = 1MQM

B747-437B
"what do you guys realistically hope to achieve"?

EyeFlyDoc
a dividend of sorts

Jet2K (Feb 3, 2003 10:08:34 PM)
unlimited 800 miles for PM

Rssrsvp
a partial roolback

EyeFlyDoc
not sure I agree avek

EyeFlyDoc
they are in a round about way

mikey1003
segments and mile for mile

B747-437B
and why is it in DL's interest to do this?

Rssrsvp
keep top customers

Jet2K
so that the best customers stay

DLrunner
to get more of our business

Flight Mechanic
Depending on an individual situation, the win seems to differ

DLrunner
else we stop flying

DLrunner
flying DL, I mean

Rssrsvp
DL has worst plan in US

bdschobel
I see two big issues affecting large numbers of flyers: 1. 1 MQM min for all fares. 2. increase potential upgrade % somewhat. The planned cuts are draconian.

mikey1003
it is easier to keep us than it is to try and win us back when things get good

Marq
esp for pm

B747-437B
ok, have you all seen the math on the upgrades issue?

Rssrsvp
true mikey

Marq
yes

bdschobel
Yes. That's why I said somewhat.

B747-437B
on how you guys *theoretically* are paying no more than before?

Rssrsvp
Sean, that's the big problem

Marq
20% for pm except full y =30%

bdschobel
That's rubbish.

mikey1003
bruce 3 things...segments important for those of uis in short haul markets

dbk10
enlighten us, please

bdschobel
OK.

B747-437B
bruce, its not rubbish - the K premium has been eliminated

Rssrsvp
let bruce answer

Jet2K
at time of booking

B747-437B
usually K is minimum fare + 40%

bdschobel
Unclear. Explain.

Marq
747 disagree

B747-437B
marq - about the min+40%?

Marq
k used to be l+ approx $15 for me

B747-437B
USED TO

Marq
yes

Marq
not since aug 02

B747-437B
remember when T fares were introduced?

bdschobel
Yes.

B747-437B
i explained that this was the entire purpose of them

Marq
have they taken it back down to what it used to be

RVBOOS
Hello everyone, sorry i'm late, I was travelling

mikey1003
i will not be dragged into a pricing issue as long as 100 plus people on any given flight are paying 100 different fares...Let DL establish a fair fare structure ...dont blindside us

Marq
747, why did it seem i was the only one complaining when they started t fares

andymo99
.

B747-437B
what is to complain about Marq?

Marq
i tried talking to fliers in crown rooms

bdschobel
T fares were pretty rare. Still are, really.

andymo99
marq, who are you, anyway?

Marq
made diffrerential too high for me to ask employer to pay for k fare